posted
On March 3, 1969 the United States Navy established an elite school for the top one percent of its pilots. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of aerial combat and to insure that the handful of men who graduated were the best fighter pilots in the world. They succeeded. Today, the Navy calls it Fighter Weapons School. The flyers call it: TOP GUN.
"Top Gun rules of engagement are written for your safety and for that of your team. They are not flexible, nor am I. Is that clear?"
Unfortunately, Tom Cruise has made poor choices and has not protected his legacy, but "Top Gun" was one awesome flick back in the 80's.
Might be one of the best Blu-ray investments that I've made to this point. The picture quality is excellent for an 80's movie and the sound makes up for all the sound quality misses from past DVDs of "Top Gun".
I will admit that director Tony Scott sounds a bit like Liberace in interviews. And the supposed inspirations which gave Scott a clear vision for what he was searching for from within the movie's characters came from none other than Bruce Weber. It was one of his photographs which actually pictured three men with uncanny resemblance to Tom Cruise, Val Kilmer, and Rick Rossovich which Tony Scott used as his guide. Thus the undertones that everyone points out about the volleyball scene....in a sense there is some truth to it.
Still an outstanding 80's movie in my opinion!
"Come on, Mav, do some of that pilot sh*t! Too close for missiles, I'm switching to guns."
[ 02. December 2008, 18:32: Message edited by: Valley ]
Posts: 7845 | From: Smiling and glancing in awe in the back of a limo | Registered: Mar 2003 | Site Updates: 22
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80'sRocked Play it Loud, Play it Proud
Member # 6979
posted
"Yee-haw, Chester's dead." "The placard for the alternates is in the ladies room." "Slider........you stink."
One of the few 80's movies I know word for word, scene for scene. It was only this, Ferris bueller and back to the Future that had the most watched status back then. Heck, who didn't want to be tom Cruise in this movie? Dogfights, Karaoke, hot flight instructors, cold-war high stakes, who could ask for anything more?
Posts: 4413 | From: Where the streets have no name | Registered: Oct 2002 | Site Updates: 0
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posted
I liked the Michael Ironside pilot, what was his name??
Posts: 1069 | From: Dragon of the Black Pool Restaurant, Chinatown. | Registered: Mar 2006 | Site Updates: 0
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Jester!! That's him!! Posts: 1069 | From: Dragon of the Black Pool Restaurant, Chinatown. | Registered: Mar 2006 | Site Updates: 0
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buffalo-girl
She's going round the outside, round the outside...
Member # 7498
posted
i love this movie but my fave was val kilmer he was hot in this movie love his lips lol!!
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quote:Originally posted by 80'sRocked: Awesome Val! That is how you start a thread folks....style and passion. Good job.
It's a pretty OK movie too!
OK?...if OK is now a synonym for 'superlative work of unparalleled genius', then yeah, its OK Posts: 2041 | From: The Ice Planet Hoth | Registered: Jul 2001 | Site Updates: 0
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Kash
Kash : Aha! He'll save every one of us...
Member # 297
posted
In all seriousness, 'Top Gun' was successfully subverted propaganda: Bruckheimer's colleague once described the concept as "Star Wars on Earth" which is true in a way. Its appeal IMO stems from a brass tacks narrative structure that taps into universally accessible ideas of the heroes journey; combine that with speed, lust, danger, camaraderie and action and you have a scenario which mirrors the style of the classics. Top Gun boasts some stunning visuals, cool soundtrack, good-looking leads and an innate understanding of what some people where trying to make it (a propaganda piece) and what the director & crew eventually created (one of the best 80s movies).
That's enough analysis "I'm going to need a beer to put these flames out. Yo! Great Mav, real slick."
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posted
I read an interview with Anthony Edwards when he was riding high on ER where he said something to the effect that he hoped the movie didn't get someone killed, by seeing that movie and enlisting.
Posts: 4413 | From: Where the streets have no name | Registered: Oct 2002 | Site Updates: 0
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quote:Originally posted by Kash: In all seriousness, 'Top Gun' was successfully subverted propaganda: Bruckheimer's colleague once described the concept as "Star Wars on Earth" which is true in a way. Its appeal IMO stems from a brass tacks narrative structure that taps into universally accessible ideas of the heroes journey; combine that with speed, lust, danger, camaraderie and action and you have a scenario which mirrors the style of the classics. Top Gun boasts some stunning visuals, cool soundtrack, good-looking leads and an innate understanding of what some people where trying to make it (a propaganda piece) and what the director & crew eventually created (one of the best 80s movies).
That's enough analysis "I'm going to need a beer to put these flames out. Yo! Great Mav, real slick."
Kash,
OK. What do you mean by "subverted propaganda".
Please part the clouds for me...
what's that you're drinking, a hemlock is it? Posts: 2729 | From: Kansas City, MO "At the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance" | Registered: Apr 2007 | Site Updates: 9
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80'sRocked Play it Loud, Play it Proud
Member # 6979
posted
Jdocster, when I saw your double posts, the first thing that came to mind was: "Holy ****, there's two of em!"
Top Gun was originally intended to be a straightforward propaganda piece (co-produced by the government, just like Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, G.I. Jane and Blackhawk Down) but Tony Scott managed to creatively subvert the Pentagon's agenda by removing all sense of subtly, earnest nationalism or the self-righteous delusion that's often presented as a given. Edward Bernays (Sigmund Freud's nephew) once wrote that propaganda is only effective if the audience doesn't know its propaganda, because once you're aware of the fact that what you're seeing is an exaggeration or has an ulterior motive; then flag waving heroics, clean cut poster boys and OTT bravado all lean towards camp cabaret, thus making it impossible to take any of it too seriously. Dumbing down the audience over a period of time can, however, make them more susceptible to crude propaganda or misinformation presented as news in the mainstream corporate media.
Remember on the Top Gun SE DVD? In the making of, there's an exasperated military guy who was on set to make sure Tony Scott was flowing their brief, said something like: "right now I'm trying to stop him (Scott) from turning it into a musical!" Scott thwarted the agenda to make a film that had a sense of its own absurdity, had a main character die, not at the hands of some nefarious foreigner, but in training, a movie that doesn't mention any creed, race or nationality (unlike Ridley Scott's Blackhawk Down in which a marauding crowd of angry black Muslim Africans are shown hoisting a dead white Christian American gunner above them whilst baying for the blood of his injured co-pilot). Tony Scott gently ridiculed the rampant homoerotic undertones of military life, tackled work related stress (i.e. Cougar) at a time when people were encouraged to get on with it and betraying normal human traits like malaise or exhaustion was considered a sign of weakness, the perils of excessive competition and all this whilst retaining a sense of fun. His characters weren't brainwashed drones but diverse, likeable everymen with interests outside of their profession; it was more about camaraderie and style than indoctrination or a recruitment device.
Also, I think there’s a slight difference between propaganda and a fascination with militaria, Robert A. Heinlein's sci-fi novels had an fetishist's devotion to miltiaria; the life, the vehicles, the weapons so on and were trying to promote the military as a way of life or his love for what he percives that life represents, as opposed to trying to get people to join. Blackhawk Down, Rules Of Engagement, Iron Man or 24 represent another, perhaps more insidious, kind of propaganda IMO; one which tries to imply that the powers that be are corrupt because the "enemy" is worse, and in spite of that, they're always acting in our best interests. Others may argue that because people are a lot more media savvy nowadays, and well aware of Hollywood propaganda, that they've become immune to it, which is why the powers that be resort to ever more sinister methods to conceal their crimes and keep the masses under their thumb. Another main difference is that real propaganda films look dated even when they're new, whereas Top Gun is as fresh and entertaining today as it ever was.
OK that was a long post: I’ve lost the edge, I’ve never seen my wife and kids I’m turning in my wings
[ 04. December 2008, 07:18: Message edited by: Kash ]
Posts: 2041 | From: The Ice Planet Hoth | Registered: Jul 2001 | Site Updates: 0
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quote:Originally posted by Kash: Jdocster, when I saw your double posts, the first thing that came to mind was: "Holy ****, there's two of em!"
Top Gun was originally intended to be a straightforward propaganda piece (co-produced by the government, just like Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, G.I. Jane and Blackhawk Down) but Tony Scott managed to creatively subvert the Pentagon's agenda by removing all sense of subtly, earnest nationalism or the self-righteous delusion that's often presented as a given. Edward Bernays (Sigmund Freud's nephew) once wrote that propaganda is only effective if the audience doesn't know its propaganda, because once you're aware of the fact that what you're seeing is an exaggeration or has an ulterior motive; then flag waving heroics, clean cut poster boys and OTT bravado all lean towards camp cabaret, thus making it impossible to take any of it too seriously. Dumbing down the audience over a period of time can, however, make them more susceptible to crude propaganda or misinformation presented as news in the mainstream corporate media.
Remember on the Top Gun SE DVD? In the making of, there's an exasperated military guy who was on set to make sure Tony Scott was flowing their brief, said something like: "right now I'm trying to stop him (Scott) from turning it into a musical!" Scott thwarted the agenda to make a film that had a sense of its own absurdity, had a main character die, not at the hands of some nefarious foreigner, but in training, a movie that doesn't mention any creed, race or nationality (unlike Ridley Scott's Blackhawk Down in which a marauding crowd of angry black Muslim Africans are shown hoisting a dead white Christian American gunner above them whilst baying for the blood of his injured co-pilot). Tony Scott gently ridiculed the rampant homoerotic undertones of military life, tackled work related stress (i.e. Cougar) at a time when people were encouraged to get on with it and betraying normal human traits like malaise or exhaustion was considered a sign of weakness, the perils of excessive competition and all this whilst retaining a sense of fun. His characters weren't brainwashed drones but diverse, likeable everymen with interests outside of their profession; it was more about camaraderie and style than indoctrination or a recruitment device.
Also, I think there’s a slight difference between propaganda and a fascination with militaria, Robert A. Heinlein's sci-fi novels had an fetishist's devotion to miltiaria; the life, the vehicles, the weapons so on and were trying to promote the military as a way of life or his love for what he percives that life represents, as opposed to trying to get people to join. Blackhawk Down, Rules Of Engagement, Iron Man or 24 represent another, perhaps more insidious, kind of propaganda IMO; one which tries to imply that the powers that be are corrupt because the "enemy" is worse, and in spite of that, they're always acting in our best interests. Others may argue that because people are a lot more media savvy nowadays, and well aware of Hollywood propaganda, that they've become immune to it, which is why the powers that be resort to ever more sinister methods to conceal their crimes and keep the masses under their thumb. Another main difference is that real propaganda films look dated even when they're new, whereas Top Gun is as fresh and entertaining today as it ever was.
OK that was a long post: I’ve lost the edge, I’ve never seen my wife and kids I’m turning in my wings
Kash,
I keep going back and deleting the double posts when I find them. I've notified Nick about the double posts. I get weird errors when posting sometimes. This results in double posts. I think Nick thinks I'm either drunk or it's a PEBKAC...
OK. So when you say:
"Top Gun was originally intended to be a straightforward propaganda piece (co-produced by the government, just like Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, G.I. Jane and Blackhawk Down)"
What are you talking about here? Are you telling me that the US government co-produced Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, etc...? Are you serious here? I've never heard anything like this at all. Where are you getting this information from? I certainly want to know if the government is in fact using these films to promote it's propaganda. This was done during WWII, but, it was well know and in-your-face. Never covert as you are suggesting here.
Please fill us in...
p.s. how's school going?
- Best wishes -
- jdocster
Posts: 2729 | From: Kansas City, MO "At the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance" | Registered: Apr 2007 | Site Updates: 9
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Valley Dated Julie From 'Valley Girl' (allegedly!)
Member # 1322
posted
For folks that only know this movie in the present and didn't get the opportunity to experience "Top Gun" in the 80's, it is probably more difficult to understand why some of us still consider this movie a classic.
Like so many things that become overwhelmingly popular, the future backlash that occurs is almost impossible to withstand it seems. We are a society that loves to build things and people up to an enormous unrealistic stature and then go into denial when they come crashing back to earth. So sad!
Call "Top Gun" whatever you want today, but in the 80's it was symbol of living on the edge and looking cool doing it.
Posts: 7845 | From: Smiling and glancing in awe in the back of a limo | Registered: Mar 2003 | Site Updates: 22
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posted
I don't think Black Hawk Down or Rules of Engagement were particularly leftwing! Or 24, for that matter. Now the old Chuck Norris Cannon flicks... thats another matter... but who cares, they are still fun!
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Kash
Kash : Aha! He'll save every one of us...
Member # 297
I keep going back and deleting the double posts when I find them. I've notified Nick about the double posts. I get weird errors when posting sometimes. This results in double posts. I think Nick thinks I'm either drunk or it's a PEBKAC...
OK. So when you say:
"Top Gun was originally intended to be a straightforward propaganda piece (co-produced by the government, just like Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, G.I. Jane and Blackhawk Down)"
What are you talking about here? Are you telling me that the US government co-produced Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, etc...? Are you serious here? I've never heard anything like this at all. Where are you getting this information from? I certainly want to know if the government is in fact using these films to promote it's propaganda. This was done during WWII, but, it was well know and in-your-face. Never covert as you are suggesting here.
Please fill us in...
p.s. how's school going?
- Best wishes -
- jdocster
That's right Jdocster, they now refer to it as consulting, but what it entails is that the government's people regularly liase with studios about certain films and what they want to see on screen, and in return they'll let the filmmakers use real equipment, co-produce or grant them privileged access. e.g. John Favereau was given free reign to film on some military bases because Iron Man portrayed the so-called 'war on terror' in a relatively positive light. There are many well researched articles out there about this issue, one reasonably famous book is 'Hollywood-Washington' by Erwan Bénezet. Also, you may remember that Zionist neo-con Karl Rove called 40 top Hollywood executives to a meeting in November 2001 to discuss what their role would be, Ridley Scott was also called in during Black Hawk Down and told to change one of the U.S. troops names, because the real soldier had just been convicted for rape.
At the same time, we also have to remember that for every Iron Eagle there's a Full Metal Jacket or a Platoon or a Born on the 4th of July (which were made without government interference). My view is that there is no liberal or conservative, no right or left: it's an Althussian paradigm, a partisan blockade designed to stop you from thinking independently or seeing the bigger picture for fear of transgressing the perceived code of your side.
Trickier than a 4g inverted dive with a MiG28 at 2..no...1 and a half meters Posts: 2041 | From: The Ice Planet Hoth | Registered: Jul 2001 | Site Updates: 0
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Kash
Kash : Aha! He'll save every one of us...
Member # 297
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: I'm curious as to how Blackhawk Down was racist?
It showed Africans as an undefined spooking mass; a savage, marauding black menace who had to be wiped out. It also didn't depict the U.S. missile strike, which killed about 200 people in the weeks before the black hawk incident. I'm not saying the Somalis should have been the heroes of that movie, but I demand some attempt at narrative accuracy and context, especially if you're claiming to make a film that’s based on a true story.
Now I don't want to steer this thread off topic anymore then it is already, so with the greatest of respect for all your opinions: lets get back 'Top Gun'. Any of you boys see a message board around here?
Posts: 2041 | From: The Ice Planet Hoth | Registered: Jul 2001 | Site Updates: 0
| IP: Logged |
I keep going back and deleting the double posts when I find them. I've notified Nick about the double posts. I get weird errors when posting sometimes. This results in double posts. I think Nick thinks I'm either drunk or it's a PEBKAC...
OK. So when you say:
"Top Gun was originally intended to be a straightforward propaganda piece (co-produced by the government, just like Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, G.I. Jane and Blackhawk Down)"
What are you talking about here? Are you telling me that the US government co-produced Iron Eagle, Red Dawn, etc...? Are you serious here? I've never heard anything like this at all. Where are you getting this information from? I certainly want to know if the government is in fact using these films to promote it's propaganda. This was done during WWII, but, it was well know and in-your-face. Never covert as you are suggesting here.
Please fill us in...
p.s. how's school going?
- Best wishes -
- jdocster </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face=""Century Gothic", Verdana, Arial">That's right Jdocster, they now refer to it as consulting, but what it entails is that the government's people regularly liase with studios about certain films and what they want to see on screen, and in return they'll let the filmmakers use real equipment, co-produce or grant them privileged access. e.g. John Favereau was given free reign to film on some military bases because Iron Man portrayed the so-called 'war on terror' in a relatively positive light. There are many well researched articles out there about this issue, one reasonably famous book is 'Hollywood-Washington' by Erwan Bénezet. Also, you may remember that Zionist neo-con Karl Rove called 40 top Hollywood executives to a meeting in November 2001 to discuss what their role would be, Ridley Scott was also called in during Black Hawk Down and told to change one of the U.S. troops names, because the real soldier had just been convicted for rape.
At the same time, we also have to remember that for every Iron Eagle there's a Full Metal Jacket or a Platoon or a Born on the 4th of July (which were made without government interference). My view is that there is no liberal or conservative, no right or left: it's an Althussian paradigm, a partisan blockade designed to stop you from thinking independently or seeing the bigger picture for fear of transgressing the perceived code of your side.
Trickier than a 4g inverted dive with a MiG28 at 2..no...1 and a half meters
OK Kash,
It sounds like you spent some time checking into this stuff huh? Interesting. I'm not having any luck finding 'Hollywood-Washington' by Erwan Bénezet, but I did find some other books. Sounds interesting to me, I'm going to check it out...
- jdocster
"This is what I call a target rich environment"
Posts: 2729 | From: Kansas City, MO "At the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance" | Registered: Apr 2007 | Site Updates: 9
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Valley Dated Julie From 'Valley Girl' (allegedly!)
Member # 1322
posted
JAY LEE .. cover your ears dude.. 'cause it's time to buzz the tower!
Just now hitting play on my "Top Gun" Blu-ray .. incredible picture with an awesome 6.1 DTS-HD Master Audio. I wish more movies would get released in 6.1 and 7.1 sound. It makes an amazing difference in my opinion.
I was at work today and my buddy was having a really bad day .. so I looked at him and said:
"I'm holding on too tight .. I've lost the edge."
We had a good laugh and his day seemed to improve from there. Probably because he made me continue to do "Top Gun" quotes all afternoon.
Posts: 7845 | From: Smiling and glancing in awe in the back of a limo | Registered: Mar 2003 | Site Updates: 22
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Valley Dated Julie From 'Valley Girl' (allegedly!)
Member # 1322
posted
"I've gotta send someone from this squadron to Miramar.. I've gotta do something here, I still can't believe it.. I've gotta give you your dream shot.. I'm gonna send you up against the best.. you two characters are going to Top Gun."
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