as you can see the number of crimes committed now is much lower than it was in the 80's thru early 90's
Also keep in mind there's a much higher population now then there was then so the crime rate is MUCH lower.
Just some food for thought
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
A nice trend taking shape. If that's the case, god bless America. I just would love to see better gun control in the future.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Dang those are some suprising numbers. Why better gun control? That's not gonna solve the problem. Criminals will still have access to guns regardless. Taking the freedoms of law abiding citizens who have a right to bear arms to defend themselves because of incompetent thugs isn't the solution......
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Maybe he meant- better gun control for on the criminals???
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
We've had very strict gun control laws here since 1996. All automatic and semi automatic weapons have been banned, and only farmers or members of gun clubs are allowed to own guns, with a permit, and have to keep them locked in a gun safe.
The number of murders and accidental deaths by guns has been dramatically reduced.
Why do law abiding citizens have a right to bear arms? It was understandable 200 years ago when people hunted for themselves and had to defend themselves against the British (sorry Noms), but it's a fairly antiquated law these days.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Wasn't stated like that. Why shouldn't an individual not have a right to bear arms? Lots of people still hunt, some are collectors, and some have guns for the purpose of defending themselves or all of the above. If someone's holding me up and it's me or them having a gun could be the deciding factor in whether or not I make it out alive. These same anti-gun people may be in the same situation someday. What will they have to complain about then? What's next telling everyone they have to buy a certain type of vehicle to drive? Marry a certain person? Government has way way too much control already. Rosie O'Donnell is a prime example. She wanted strict gun control laws passed while at the same time allowing her body guards to at all times be armed. Look at Danny Glover (an anti-gun advocate) whose role in the Lethal Weapon franchise (movies where virtually a gun is in every scene). I have no problem at all with individuals being anti-gun but Danny had no problem accepting the huge paychecks from these movies yet he has a problem with American citizens having the right to arm themselves. If he's that hell bent on the topic, then he should have donated royalties from the Lethal Weapon movies to charity. Both are very hypocritical.....
[ 05. January 2009, 13:12: Message edited by: MotleyRulz ]
Posted by NiceGuy Sammy Hain (Member # 3150) on :
Instead of better gun control we need better gun education.
Just a small sidenote that the entire state of North Dakota only had 2 murders total for the calendar year of 2008.
Posted by pettyfan (Member # 2260) on :
Mock me if you wish, but guns don't kill people. PEOPLE kill people, whether they use guns, knives, etc. I think we've had this discussion before--I want to be able to defend myself or my family if God forbid something were to happen. Sam's right--we need better gun education. And, yep, believe it or not, people still hunt.
[ 05. January 2009, 15:57: Message edited by: pettyfan ]
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
Yes, people still hunt, especially here in the state of Pennsylvania. If they didn't allow hunting, we'd be over run with the deer population, they would come in and ruin crops,and our local food prices would go up even more. Yeah, it makes real sense to outlaw guns here, heh,heh. And I can't tell you how many people I know have hit deer with their cars, including my husband (twice) and my brother-in-law.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Maybe they should outlaw cars since they kill deer too......
Posted by Chris the CandyFanMan (Member # 3197) on :
It was posted in the paper a couple days ago that all but about 2 major cities had homicide drops over the last year, so we must be doing something right. Taking into account how ugly the crack wars were raging 20 years back, it's good to see how we ended up getting the upper hand there and ended up crushing the cartels.
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
As for "gun education", are you referring to the shooting ranges?
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Danny Glover played a police officer in the movie, he didn't play a civilian vigilante.
Our state does not have a deer population problem, so if your going to start a debate on hunting, then get your facts straight.
In the early 1920s, Pennsylvania's deer population was so low, from hunting them all- that they purchased deer from Michigan so that people would have something to kill.
The hunting industry is a billion dollar industry. It is ALL about money. We do NOT live in a day and age where hunting for your food is a neccessity in life- or you'd die. For what 1 person spends on ammo, a gun, a license, taking time off work, the proper hunting gear and all the "gadgets" they buy- they could have fed a small country.
People get shot in their back yards every year, because of "hunters"- hunting too close to residential areas- and that's because we have over developed the land-causing the deer to have no where to go. We have already killed off all the natural predators like mountain lions and wolves. They have just as much right to be here as we do, infact more so...because unless your an American Indian- you were brought here from somewhere else.
Every year during hunting season-that is the time of year there are more accidents involving deer than any other time, because they are running for lives and run out on to the roads. Animals feel pain, they might not be able to talk, but they know fear. Just think if someone shot you with a bow and arrow, and let you wander off to die a slow painful death...is that humane? Is that what makes someone a great hunter, and a great man?
The game commission STOCKS wildlife. They raise things like grouse and pheasants and let them go in areas that they know people hunt in. It is all very carefully manipulated. They stock srteams for fishing, they do the same thing with every form of wildlife. When was the last time anyone ever saw a bear in the wild? Yet, every year people kill them.
If someone wants to kill you bad enough, you having a gun- isn't going to save your life- you'd probably shoot yourself or some innocent person before ever needing one as self defense. How many people have been in a situation, where they needed a gun and had to use it, or they be dead right now?
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
Oh geez.....they take 1 isolated incident, and make it in to there being deer running in to Target stores to go shopping...as if it happens every 5 minutes.
I saw that happen once- and you know when it was?? During hunting season, when a deer was scared out of it's mind, it jumped through a window at the bank.
A deer has no idea that it's eating someone's business...it just is hungry.
I have been to downtown Philly before...and I just couldn't believe how many wild deer were roaming the streets looking for a peach tree.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I didn't even go on the Audubon society website-it's all hunters on there...they all boo hoo about them not having anything to kill...on one hand...then they complain there's too many on another...which is it.
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
Even though I agree that gun control laws are very important, you all have some very valid points. I guess it's a difference in culture - we've never had to fight for our nation, we were created in peace, so that's a huge cultural difference between Australia and the US.
I guess people will always kill people. Once our gun laws passed, the number of knife deaths increased, leading to a ban in the carrying of knives in public - which I also agree with. You now have to be 18 or over to buy anything other than cutlery now.
And of course farmers, hunters and gun club members should be able to retain their weapons, they are legitimate users of guns.
I have one question - are automatic weapons available to anyone in the US? Or are they more restricted than other types of guns?
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Automatic guns are illegal here. Thankfully-but it doesn't mean that they aren't everywhere.
So many Americans don't pay attention to our laws, we have been given so much freedom, that we think there are no rules anymore. You can see it in the schools. Teachers have no way of discipiling kids.
I wish we were a nation created out of peace. All we know here is how to stir up trouble.
I don't buy the saying that people kill people, not guns...if that person didn't have access to a gun, and they had to stab a person to death to kill them- I doubt we'd have as many murders.
Posted by Ronnie (Member # 465) on :
it's people that intentionally harm and target others...be it with a gun or knife, or whatever have you.. regardless... same goes for drugs. (in the words of johnny rotten) .."drugs don't kill you, your own foolishness does."
it's a matter of choice.
Posted by NiceGuy Sammy Hain (Member # 3150) on :
Getting back on topic about the crime rates instead of hunting. If you look closer at the numbers you'd see the last time the crime rate in the USA was as low as it was in 2007 you'd have to go back to 1969.
So long story short is that the USA is as safe now as it was almost 40 years ago.
That's a nice trend that I hope continues.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I do agree on that. I think crime is coming down, because every where now has a video camera, so people get caught. The one good plus for technology is that...alot of people have home security systems....and the other thing is...is the majority of the population, will rip your face off and probably kill you-if you look at them the wrong way- so everyone is scared of each other.
Posted by pettyfan (Member # 2260) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ronnie: it's people that intentionally harm and target others...be it with a gun or knife, or whatever have you.. regardless... same goes for drugs. (in the words of johnny rotten) .."drugs don't kill you, your own foolishness does."
it's a matter of choice.
You said that so well!! I totally agree!!
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Yeah...well if someone that was crazy and foolish-had a knife instead of an automatic weapon-at Columbine or VA Tech-I don't think they would have been able to kill all those people with a knife. They may have been crazy as can be....but without the gun involved-most of those people would be alive.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
So your suggesting that knives should be outlawed as well? People make the choice to use a gun be it one they own, steal, buy off the street, etc. They ultimately make the decision to pull the trigger. It's ridiculous in itself to blame a gun and not the person. Who are you to say that most of them would still be alive? A friend of mine's brother who was in grad school at VA Tech at the time of the massacre would surely love to hear your views......
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
Hmmm. don't the male deer go running around everywhere when it is rut season? And I mean everywhere and anywhere, to get to a female in heat- they will run across roads, highways, bridges etc. So that's all the hunters' fault?
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
The crime rate in Pittsburgh has gone down, they said something on the news last week. But it doesn't seem that way. All of the druggies take each other out every day.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Maybe they should outlaw deer? I think I'll write my representative about it. If people wouldn't drive though not nearly as many deer would be killed. Cars are evil manipulative weapons. It's not the drivers it's the cars lol.....
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
I have a friend who hunts as much as possible. He gets as many doe tags as he can. Today he and his friend got two doe, so they are taking them to the butcher and giving us one. I'll be having some steaks, and ground meat, etc. My friend has a freezer full of venison, they don't even buy beef anymore.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
My point wasn't what Glover played in the movie the point was he was in a movie with violence and shooting all throughout the movie yet believes in gun control. If someone wants to kill me bad enough having a gun may very well save my life. Where do you get it wouldn't? Hunting ISN'T all about the money a lot of people actually enjoy it and it's an individual's money on as far as the money they spend and third world country. What's next telling people what they can an cannot spend their money on? Ridiculous. My uncle was actually in a situation around 20 years ago where a gun saved someone else's life. He and a friend of his were on some land my uncle owned and had planned to shoot clays there later that day. My uncle was showing his friend the land he had purchased about a week beforehand as they also planned to hunt on it during hunting season. My uncle went into the cabin on the land to use the bath room while his friend was outside looking over the land examining possible tree stand options. Two men came out of the woods and approached my uncle's friend flashing knives demanding his money. My uncle noticed this through the window as he was getting ready to come back out. My uncle went out the back way and fired up into the air scaring both would be robbers off. So yes actually having a weapon probably saved his friend's life or at least from being robbed. Around a year later these two individuals were arrested for a string of robberies in and around the area as their pics showed up in the local paper. Being a great hunter doesn't make someone a great person but being able to respect each side's opinions without unconfirmed findings in a respectful manner does. That being said, what would you have done thrown a copy of Private School at them?
[ 06. January 2009, 18:22: Message edited by: MotleyRulz ]
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: It's ridiculous in itself to blame a gun and not the person.
IMO, that's exactly why gun bans are a good idea. In a society where everyone has the right to bear arms, it means that guns can legally end up in the hands of people who will misuse them.
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
And guns suddenly make tough guys out of normal people.
Posted by Paul Dangerously, you iceholes.... (Member # 1022) on :
Thing is - if you ban guns (or make them prohibitively difficult to obtain for people) this will make no difference at all to the criminal or homicidal elements in society. They will still get all the guns they need, simply because by definition they don't operate within the laws that govern the majority.
All the gun ban will do is to remove the option of self-defence to the potential victims of gun-crime.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Exactly Paul. Guns don't suddenly make tough guys out of normal people they allow citizens to defend themselves in times of need. Not everyone who has a gun has a Dirty Harry mentality. That's being pretty stereotypical. I don't understand your mentality Stitch as you neglect to mention the other 90% of society who actually hunt, protect themselves, and collect guns. What if you had a friend or knew someone who was on a painkiller such as Oxycontin (or any type of med for that matter) and the government decided to ban it because of a fraction of society abusing it? Oxycontin is used as an example because that's actually happening a lot around these parts.......
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
So it's basically kill or be killed then? That's what you are saying? Typical high school student is tired of being picked on, so he explores his "options." Some of these types of guns these kids get their hands on should only be used by law enforcement or armed forces. Motley, are you a NRA member?
Posted by Paul Dangerously, you iceholes.... (Member # 1022) on :
No - that's not what we said at all. If someone is feeling disaffected enough that going on a killing spre is even entering his head, then he'll find a way, and get a weapon. We have very strict gun laws here, but if I wanted one I could get one.
The point is - rather than 'kill or be killed', if a would be robber thinks that there's a risk to him if he attacks you, then there's a disincentive right there. And if you legislate that only bad guys have the guns, then guess what - there's no risk to the bad guys using those guns.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I don't see how anything that you can compare to a gun in this kind of scenario is even closely comparable. Oxycontin=Gun.....I don't think so.
Quit manufacturing guns. The sole purpose of a gun is to kill someone/something...so when people use them for what they are made for ...then why is that so shocking. There is no other purpose of a hand gun...than to kill with it- they are not legal for hunting.
Guns have been glorified in every video game and every new movie coming out- and every tv show- it is constant shooting and killing. Even in music videos. It's everywhere, and it is too much.
I knew alot of people at VA Tech when the shootings happened, we had a shooting at Penn State a few years ago too. If the person would NOT have had a gun...absolutely the people who were killed would still be alive...how can you think they wouldn't be?
My gosh just a little over a year ago, a man went in to an AMISH school and killed a group of Amish girls, with a GUN.
Anyone can get a gun around here, you can go buy one at Kmart. I see people selling them at flea markets.
Alot of people who have guns, get a misplaced sense of security with having one, and they panic all the time- they hear a noise in the middle of the night..and they shoot someone they know.
I personally know many people who have been killed during hunting season. 1 was my friend's father- shot his own brother while they were way out in the woods, and they were crawling up a hill, and one slipped, and the saftey wasn't on, and he shot his brother, he had to leave him laying there dying in the woods while he ran for help. He died.
Another friend of mine- her high school boyfriend was cleaning a gun, and some how it went of and shot and killed his 16 year old brother.
Another friend, her preacher's son found a gun in their home, and didn't know it was loaded, and shot and killed his 6 year old sister.
If the GUN hadn't been there in the first place. All three of those people would still be alive-no doubt about it.
I know exactly what the answer is to all of this stuff. Nobody cares about anything that doesn't have an effect on them directly. The whole thing with the shootings at any of these places, goes back to the people that did them...just like with Columbine- those boys were downloading stuff off the internet, they were building bombs, there were signs that were ignored in every single case like this, that could have prevented any of it from happening, but nobody ever wants to get involved.
The man that did the VA Tech stuff....there was so much about him that screamed that he was going to snap....nobody did anything. People like that need locked up. There are too many crazy people wandering the streets- that's the problem.
But, you add in the fact that they can get a gun anywhere they feel like it.
If you watch the news, it will depress you-according to them-nothing good ever happens, and every day if you watch it-someone is shot, someone is molested, someone is robbed- so I don't see a change in what's happening with the world. I don't see more positive news coming about.
At least I actually do things in my area to try and change it, and I don't just run my mouth about it, I actually leave the house and try and change things.
If I was confronted in a situation where someone was going to rob me- they can have any money I had-I am not risking my life for nothing- except my family. Money is nothing to risk your life over. Every situation is different, I wouldn't want to be in one like that....but knowing self defense is a better way of protecting yourself than with a gun.
Posted by Paul Dangerously, you iceholes.... (Member # 1022) on :
People like that need locked up. There are too many crazy people wandering the streets- that's the problem.
You can't lock people up because the general opinion is that they are 'crazy' - even if they wind up hurting people. Only once they have broken the law can you arrest and detain them. That's called Democracy, and that means that you have a lot of good things, and a lot of bad things, and trust that society makes more right choices than wrong. And that's still better than any alternative system of Government ever tried anywhere.
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
If guns were legal here, I would most def have one! I have been cut in the face with a knife, beaten in my own doorway, crazy people banging on my door in the middle of the night and so on and so on.... it never ends!
Once a junkie tried to rob my house, I broke his nose and collarbone with my baseball bat, and guess what happened.... I WAS ARRESTED by the damn cops for assault..... how do you like them apples??!!
In Denmark, it's all about the offenders rights, not the victims. Due to some misguided "compassionate" politics, remnant from the ****ing 70's!
Here, white collar criminals get twice or three times the sentence as a pedophile or someone who beat someone else, within an inch of their life... go figure!
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: Exactly Paul. Guns don't suddenly make tough guys out of normal people they allow citizens to defend themselves in times of need. Not everyone who has a gun has a Dirty Harry mentality. That's being pretty stereotypical. I don't understand your mentality Stitch as you neglect to mention the other 90% of society who actually hunt, protect themselves, and collect guns. What if you had a friend or knew someone who was on a painkiller such as Oxycontin (or any type of med for that matter) and the government decided to ban it because of a fraction of society abusing it? Oxycontin is used as an example because that's actually happening a lot around these parts.......
Like I said in an earlier post, even though there is a gun ban here in Australia, legitimate users like farmers, registered hunters and members of gun clubs are permitted to own guns.
The gun ban here came into effect in 1996, after a mentally "not quite right" man named Martin Bryant legally purchased a number of automatic weapons, and went on to commit the largest massacre in Australian history. 35 people were killed at a tourist location in Port Arthur, Tasmania.
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
Oy, sorry to hear of your plight JayLee. Some sick people out there. I am sick of the hippy leftovers too. Those laws don't make any sense there in Denmark, maybe you guys need to vote in some new politians and change your laws.
Posted by EleanorJune (Member # 7024) on :
I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have guns, carry a gun, know how to use a gun, collect guns, have cleaned my gun without shooting myself or anyone, have a toddler who has NEVER touched my gun, and have many gun safes. I have also never shot anyone with my gun, including animals for sport. My bullets typically only ever see a target!
I have taken classes, practice, and keep the safety always on! I could go on and on, but I wont.
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
Hippy leftovers? Guess you weren't the Woodstock baby then? Oh, and by the way Wavy Gravy says hello. God, I remember a time when people were into archery......
Posted by 80'sRocked (Member # 6979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Riptide: God, I remember a time when people were into archery......
I loved archery in highschool! I was a great shot too.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
How can you not see the comparison? Both are dangerous (in the wrong hands) and can be gotten quite easily. Your remark about people panicking who have guns is beyond comprehension as well and many of us do actually leave the house with hopes of changing things rather than complaining all the time. That statement in itself is ironic in that it came from one of the biggest complainers around. If they quit manufacturing guns, I'll assume the armed forces will have to resort to archery, rocks, slingshots, catapults, and of the sort. Quite the amusing yet once again unbelievable statement. I can just see it now: "Police thwart armed robbery with big azz slingshot." Try doing some actual research and putting some thought into things before making off the wall, laughable statements. With that line of thinking, shouldn't you also ban kids from playing Guitar Hero since according to that point of view rock stars booze it up and do drugs? Isn't that a bad influence towards kids since none of them never get out and do anything anymore? Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
If the Guitar Hero packages start containing powders and Jack Daniels, I'd say you got a valid argument there...... Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
People can go on and on all day long about how great guns are...I will never see that point of view.
Complainer? What do I complain about?
Violence is the number 1 thing I complain about, so how does me not liking violence make me the problem?
That is the number 1 thing on here that I have never understood about any of you people who act as if I am the bad person. I don't like killing animals, I don't like violent games, I don't like music with swear words in it, and I don't like movies that are geared towards children-that show people getting shot in the face- but because I say those things...because that's is what is happening on TV...in music and in games- I am the one with the problem? Right....I should become like everyone else and just go with flow and love it all...right? I don't think so.
If you want to read the real facts- they are out there:
Isis, even you must see you complain about a hell of a lot of stuff, but laying that one aside:
You are NOT the problem. However, the differences in attitude, and the apparent voicing of uninformed comment on BOTH sides of this debate is mbeginning to make the debate itself the problem.
Nobody is saying here (and I've looked) that you are a bad person. it's simply that most people don't get how someone can have the outlook on life that you have, given the things you say that you do and have experienced. Your character is so different to most other people on here, that you stand out in the things you post. and even you must admit that you bite way too easily when you percieve that someone's having a dig at you, when often they are challenging what you say, not who you are.
Please - and this goes to EVERYONE on the board - remember to flag issues you have with posts to the Moderators, using the Report Post link. Don't simply fly off and post articles against other members, cos they will be pulled. By all means debate, and offer contrary views to each other. Being different is a good thing. Just don't get personal, don't take anything personally, and if anyone upsets you, either report it, re-read it and check for the true meaning, or leave it alone. Don't respond in kind, because that does make you all the same - targets for the awesome powers of the Mighty Moderators...
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
Mighty Morphin' Moderators?
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
Hubby got a deer yesterday. Hey Motley-at first he wasn't going to shoot- he was just gonna say "freeze deer dude, I want you for my dinner table" but that didn't work. So now I've got some good deer meat in my freezer. I'm going to prepare some tomorrow in the slow cooker.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
It was the gun's fault anyways don't blame your hubby. Tell him congratulations!
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
Yeah congrats, you must be really proud.
Posted by kevdugp73 (Member # 5978) on :
I'm sitting on the fence with this one. As Michael Moore has pointed out, the media has people scared silly re weopons and violence..fear is a very strong emotion. I know if anyone ever broke into my house and hurt my family...I'd have wanted a gun. Not scared enough to make that decision yet, but if things got bad enough, I'd make sure I could protect myself and my family. Although...I only get mad about once a year...and don't even kill bugs unless they bite me....I pity da fool who tries to hurt my family...all that pent up anger unleashed at one time doesn't look pretty...
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
I don't kill bugs either, kevdugp73....! If I see a spider or a fly or something in my house, I help them outside. But if I see some lowlife junkie with my dvd player in his hands, im gonna beat him so bad, that they need his ****ing dental records for identification!
But I think it is a good idea to be preemtive (sp?). You don't "live in fear" because you have a weapon in your house. You're just ready for the worst case scenario.
And I would rather say that, "I was prepared, and I came out on top" than, "I was not prepared, but I should have been, and now it is too late".
Posted by NiceGuy Sammy Hain (Member # 3150) on :
To quote Christian Slater's character Clarence Worley from "True Romance"
'it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it.'
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
Excellent quote, Sammy... and very true!
Posted by Does whatever a SpiderNOMS does... (Member # 2688) on :
To add my thoughts to this debate...
All i know is that when I was in Afghanistan, I was happy that I had a gun...
Shooter Noms Posted by Paul Dangerously, you iceholes.... (Member # 1022) on :
quote:Originally posted by Does whatever a SpiderNOMS does...: To add my thoughts to this debate...
All i know is that when I was in Afghanistan, I was happy that I had a gun...
Shooter Noms
All we know is, when you had a gun, we were happy that you were in Afghanistan (and not in Shermer, Illinois, for example...)
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Today....in a town 7 miles from me....2- 13 year old boys were goofing around filming themselves doing something to put on you tube. There was a gun at the house they were in, and some how, one of the 13 year old boys found it, and shot and killed the other one. Now, the parents of the one boy... they are both drug addicts. He's the one that is dead. Who was around to teach that kid gun safety, and who was practicing gun safety? Nobody. That's why this stuff happens all the time. People who do take care of their guns...that's not the problem, it is people who don't take care of their guns. And there's a ton of them. So, people can jump up and down all day long saying how safe they are with their guns- but not everyone is that way, and that is the reason bad things like this happen. It makes me sick.
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
quote:Originally posted by JAY LEE:
But I think it is a good idea to be preemtive (sp?).
I have to disagree with you on that point, Jay Lee. Imagine if everyone were pre emptive? Shooting first before asking questions? It would be a pretty terrifying world to live in.
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
Try living in my neighbourhood.... trust me, you will wanna have some kind of weapon(s) in your house!
I don't need to ask a ****load of questions if you're breaking in to my house in the middle of the night! Im no math wiz, but by my humble accounts, your not the mailman, making a special all night delivery!
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Jay Lee-did you ever thinking about moving? I never understand why people stay in crime areas.
You can go back and visit- or let people come visit you. You can get a job anywhere, and usually the crime areas are in cities-so the cost of living is always more there, so move and go to the suburbs, and leave that whole scene.
I can't imagine worrying every day of someone breaking in to my home. All though it seems no matter where you are, things happen.
The world is so crazy. Last night a young kid that we semi know, he was out drinking with his friends and he jumped out of a truck (we don't know why), and know he's in a coma. I have no clue why people do such dumb stuff. I am not talking about the jumping out of the truck, I am talking about the drinking.
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
I can't afford to move to the burbs! But I am looking for a new place.
With that being said, the burbs aren't any safer really...! After the EU decided to pretty much open the borders in Europe, there have been a mass invasion of criminals from eastern Europe, Poland, former Yugoslavia, Gypsies and what not. And their specialty is home invasions. mostly in the more afluent neighbourhoods, but in middle class areas as well. The sad reality is, that these people have nothing to lose. if they get away with the robberies, they have money. And if they don't, they will still have it better in a Danish prison, than they would in the empoverished places they come from. Alot of these robberies end up with murder, when people struggle back. It is a sad reality.
Posted by Pittsburghgirl (Member # 7514) on :
There was a home invasion on an elderly couple about 5 years ago in my neighborhood. If I heard one more person who worked with me ask "What kind of neighborhood do you live in?" I was going to scream. The people asking that stupid question lived in low class neighborhoods or some in the ghetto. We live in an upper middle class to middle class neighborhood. But crime happens everywhere, which people seem to forget. That is why I check all my doors and the garage door before going to bed every night, and I keep the doors locked at all times anyway, unless we're coming in or out for something.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
When I was younger- clear up to when I was in high school, we never locked our doors, the keys were in the car. The worst thing that ever happened, was someone stole my ten-speed. They caught them and they had to buy me a new bike.
Bad things use to happen when I was a kid, but it was rare- and it wasn't broadcasted everywhere.
I lived in Pittsburgh for over a year- after high school, and I use to go there all the time when I was a teenager-in the 80s, because I had a friend who went to Slippery Rock University, and I never was scared living there. I think when I was younger-I had never experienced crime-I never watched the news...the news wasn't horrible like it is now....and you didn't fear everyone and everything.
Jay Lee-I didn't realize where you even lived.
A friend of mine just got back from Europe. She said she would love to get married there but it is so expensive.
I sometimes watch House Hunters International, and I can't believe how expensive it is to live in other countries. It's like a million dollars for a 500 square foot apartment in some places-it's crazy. I always wonder what people do for jobs to afford to be there.
I thought that other countries had way stricker laws than we do, and that they will cut your hand off for stealing, so crime wasn't as bad. I guess that is a misconception.
Posted by JAY LEE (Member # 6345) on :
I think the only place they cut your hand off, for stealing is in Iran
Denmark used to be a very good and safe place... it's not anymore... and the problem is, that the laws hasn't been changed accordingly. We have been accepting refugees and foreigners in this country, on a massive scale since the late 60's. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. The problem is, that the people who come here (mostly arabs,somalis and eastern europeans) have no education, and alot of them, don't wan't one, when they get here. They have no interest in danish cutlture or how things work here. They are bunched together in ghetto's (the goverments fault) and live by their own codes and cultural rules. But their kids are torn between two cultures, and make up about 50% of the national crime rate.
Now some people say that it's because some of them come from war torn countries and so on. But hey.... so does all the vietnamese that came here in the 70's, and all you ever hear or see of them, is them working their *** off, and being very well integrated.
I think when you pussyfoot around these subjects out of fear of being called a bigot or a racist, your just adding to the problems by not adressing them, and speaking in an open an honest fashion. It might not be politically correct... but the truth rarely is!
I was born in one of the worst ghetto's in Denmark (arabs,asians,eastern euro's, very few white people)But it really wasn't all that bad back then, and I learned to get along with everybody, regardless of their ethnicity. But because of the massive problems we have with crime and foreigners creating problems of all kinds today. I don't think like I use to. You really have to live here, to get a sense of what it is like.
It is not the Denmark I grew up in. The justice system is a joke, to the point where criminals come from other countries just to do dirt here. The new national police reform, is so dysfunctional and poorly planned, that the police don't come when you call anymore, they are busy doing paperwork, if your in the process of being killed, raped, robbed... it is just to bad, im not kidding. the education system is starting to crack, the economy is bad, high unemployment and no work and so on... so when I have the resources, Im moving far away... I have no love for this country anymore.
RANT OVER Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
My friend went to the funeral tonight of the 13 year old boy who was shot by his friend. He was shot in the chin. There is an investigation as to what exactly happened...but they were goofing around making a video for you tube, and they didn't know the gun was loaded. I never ever understand any of that...that's I guess how some kids think, I would never have thought to aim a gun at someone, even just playing around -when I was 13, and pull the trigger. Very sad stuff.
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
I mentioned in an earlier post that in 1996 laws were passed banning guns from all but but registered farmers and gunclub members. Since then the majority of gun deaths have been either suicides like a friend of mine, or accidental, and involving people or family members of people who ignored the gun amnesty, where they were able to exchange their guns for money.
Children have been killed playing with guns in households where guns were totally not necessary, and even more have been through suicide. Few murders have been committed using guns inthe past 13 years or so, apart from the gangland murders. I'd go so far as to say that the majority of gun deaths have been either self inflicted or by organised crime syndicates. The number of deaths by gun committed by "regular" members of the public have been dramatically reduced.
[ 21. January 2009, 00:18: Message edited by: Stitch Groover ]
Posted by Paul Dangerously, you iceholes.... (Member # 1022) on :
Just to add some clarity to some of the earlier posts:
Crimes are commited in richer, more affluent areas, because that's where the good stuff to steal is. Nobody will break in and rob someone who has nothing worth stealing.
So all this talk about 'high crime areas' and 'why don't you move' is meaningless. If you move somewhere and take all your valuable, easily resellable goods with you - someone will try to rob you eventually, wherever you live.
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