This year is going to be a historial year for politics. We are going to either have the first African American president, or the first Woman Vice President. I am really scared this year...about the choices we have.
I don't like either one of them at all.
I am not even a political person, I hate politics.
But, I started reading some about Sarah Palin, who's running for VP...everyone is saying about her having 5 kids, and that if you say she can't juggle 5 kids and a job, then your sexist.
I think anyone having 5 kids...has enough with just that to deal with...on top of ...that one has down's syndrome-that could take up all your time right there- and her daughter is 17 and pregnant- and MCCain says that's a wonderful thing...and a blessing...and all that...and I think...great...what's with people's brains.
All they talk about are what the women in politics are wearing, and who they have slept with...while we have a war going on. I am just so sick of people not worrying about the important stuff, while people are dying.
I think we are doomed...no matter which way we go ...and it is scary...because of the way the world is anymore...we are so focused on all the wrong issues.
Posted by xchazx (Member # 7158) on :
i don't like palin because she's a religous nut, er, i mean, an evangelical. i think having a president who talks to jesus in the white house for the past 8 yrs is enough.
and it's a scary thought to think she's one mccain grabber away from being in charge.
Posted by Sam 'The Made Man' Hain (Member # 3150) on :
Obama/Biden '08
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
Palin has a capable husband who can take care of their family. No one ever says that male canidates won't have enough time for their children so why should Palin be any different?
As for her being a "religous nut", as xchazx put it, Obama is big into his church as well.
I just want someone who will stop taxing the heck outta us so we can get ahead in life. Most Americans are in debt and with jobs being cut left and right who knows what will happen.
Posted by 80'sRocked (Member # 6979) on :
I never voted in my life and never will. At least nobody can say to me, "hey, you voted for this a**hole", which most of them are.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Ali-the thing with the kids....is...most people who have been president...haven't had kids that young. Her child with down's syndrome is an infant. And....I think it goes both ways...I think with Obama...how's he going to spend time with his kids either.
I think we have too many rednecks in our country...that I fear an assassination attempt on different people...and McCain is getting pretty old...we could end up with a woman president...and I never heard of these 2 running mates for VP...before this...it's like they plucked them out of nowhere.
I personally have never felt that you can do both...that you can raise your kids right and work a full time job. I feel that parenting is a full time job....Palin is against abortion-even in cases of rape and incest...and McCain says that kids shouldn't get sex ed. from school it should come from the parents...well if that's the case...where was Palin or her husband at when she needed to be discussing that with her kid. Becoming a parent when your still a child...to me is not something anybody should say is a blessing...that all is just crazy.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
80srocked-I am voting...I am independant...but I vote to keep the lesser of the 2 evils out...because it is going to be a really close election this year.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
Her kid is 17, in a few more months no one would care cuz she'd be 18. You can discuss all you want with your kids, they are gonna do what they want. At some point you have to put responsibility on the children for making their own choices.
I mean her other older daughter isnt pregnant and as far as we know her son who is on his way to Iraq didnt get anyone pregnant so she must have been an alright mom.
As for the "redneck" comment I dont know what you meant by it, but up here in northern Wi, we kind of rednecks, we like our racing , football, hunting and all. I'm not trying to assassinate anyone nor is any of my friends and family.
[ 07. September 2008, 18:36: Message edited by: Ali_with_an_i ]
Posted by Sam 'The Made Man' Hain (Member # 3150) on :
quote:Originally posted by 80'sRocked: I never voted in my life and never will. At least nobody can say to me, "hey, you voted for this a**hole", which most of them are.
But then on the other hand if things go bad for you you have no right to complain either.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Even though I'm not a McCain/Palin supporter, as someone said, you can't be there 24/7 with your kids as they get older. Eventually they have to choose and accept responsibility for their own mistakes and problems. The redneck comment was totally off balance as it seems to stereotype and only makes you look clueless in generalizing and insults those us of from the South. Not all of us marry our cousins, consider chewing tobacco to be a before dinner appetizer, or drop out of school. And get this (you may wanna sit down out of suprise) I like to hunt, fish, love NASCAR, love beer AND I'm educated! Gahhh lee! That being said, next to the Bush/Kerry choice of 2000, this has to be the worst choice of candidates in my history of voting. Clinton may have fooled around, but gas prices were not out of the roof and people had jobs. And before anyone mentions anything about Clinton and NAFTA, it was Bush Sr. who actually got the ball rolling with it even though Clinton signed it. I'll probably vote Obama simply because McCain is a warmonger like Bush plus too much religion in government can be a bad thing. Look what someone whose been in the office for 8 years who claims to have high religious morals has gotten us in 8 years: nothing. I'd vote Libertarian but the Libertarian candidate doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. I may run in 2012 anybody wanna be my VP? I also think McCain's choice of Palin for VP is a feeble attempt to ooh and aah Hilary Clinton supporters. I hope they aren't gullible enough to fall for it. The Republicans may as well hand the presidency to the Democrats next time if McCain/Palin is the best they've got......
[ 07. September 2008, 18:39: Message edited by: MotleyRulz ]
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Well...you guys have a different definition of a redneck than me.
I should have said...racist....as in someone who supports the KKK. There's still alot of them out there...and I don't care if they are from the south , noth, east or west...they still exist.
I know that kids have their own minds, and that girl made her own choices...but...my thing about that...was someone saying that it is a blessing...to be having a child when that girl is a child...and a year or two does make some what of a slight difference...when you are that age. But...my point again about the focus on that...is that we are at war...I don't care about what they are wearing and who they slept with.
[ 07. September 2008, 19:16: Message edited by: ISIS ]
Posted by xchazx (Member # 7158) on :
and it's always a good thing when parents force their 17 yr old daughter to marry her high school sweetheart. that always works out.
i guess jesus didn't tell her that her daughter was having unprotected sex. she should bring that up the next time they talk.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
If the fact that we are at war is your focus, then why did you even bring up all that other stuff?
Yes racists are still out there and everywhere and that would have been a better term to use than redneck.
As for the child having a child, the girl is a pretty mature child, it's not like she's 12 or 13. Not that it makes it right. I think they say the child is a blessing because some people believe that all children are blessings no matter how they were concieved. A child is a precious thing, and maybe Bristol should have waited till she was 18, but that doesnt mean that her having a baby now is horrible, there many worse things she could be doing at that age.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
Why does everyone keep geeting on Palin for the religous stuff? I mean Obama is way big into church as well. And what's wrong with that? Our country has lost some morals here. I dont care which religion people follow but I dont think its a bad thing to be spiritual.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
The year or two difference was probably brought up because once she's 18 she's an adult. There's a huge difference in 17 and 18 in that respect. It's like Cheney our current VP/leech saying he's against gay rights yet he has a lesbian daughter. Politicans are smooth talkers so naturally they try to skid past the things that make them skiddish. They talk about change this and change that but we always end up staying the same. While I respect McCain and he being a former prisoner of war, I cringe to think of how much longer this war will go on when you have someone who's a stronger war advocate than Bush himself. I'm all for war when it's needed and I support the troops as I have a couple of cousins serving in Iraq, but really what was the real reason to go to Iraq? To finish the job Bush Sr./daddy didn't...........
Posted by Riptide (Member # 457) on :
I'm more alarmed that Palin is a NRA member, must be a Republican prerequisite, shoot thy neighbour and all of that stuff. The thing about religion, is just the blatant hypocrisy involved, you want to believe in god and family values, yet you have this willingness to wage war, kill for assets like it's your god-given right? It's about helping your rich oil buddies, the victims of Katrina be damned.
Posted by xchazx (Member # 7158) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ali_with_an_i: Why does everyone keep geeting on Palin for the religous stuff? I mean Obama is way big into church as well. And what's wrong with that? Our country has lost some morals here. I dont care which religion people follow but I dont think its a bad thing to be spiritual.
i don't have a problem with people being religous. every president we've had has been. but she takes it to another level. a bush level. evangelicals believe the bible is the word of god and everything in it is how it happened. i wouldn't doubt that she believes that the earth is 5000 yrs old or that dinosaurs didn't exist because they weren't mentioned in the bible.
there is a difference between being religous and having your every thought dictated by what the bible tells you. and i don't know if i'd want someone like her that close to the presidency.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I only made 1 statement about her having 5 kids...and that I think she's got her hands full... I don't know how on Earth she will juggle it all- wether she thinks she can or not-I don't even have a clue how it could ever be possible.
I totally feel that there has to be other people out there that have a way better grasp on their personal lives....than any of these people do....
It seems that the focus is always on their personal lives, and that everyone's personal life is a mess.....isn't there anybody out there...that has their act together....not 1 person??? That has a brain in their head...and has focus on what the problems are that need fixed....and can get something accomplished.
That's my whole problem with everything that is going on...it seems that no matter who they are...their lives are in total turmoil.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
Thats true, but I dont know if McCain is more for war than Bush. Unlike Bush he has been in a war and know the horrors it brings. He has said that he hates it. I think Iraq was not such a great idea especially with countries like North Korea and Iran who openly threaten other countries, and most of our resources are in Iraq. I think we need some big changes in our country and I dont know if the dems or the repubs are what we need. i wish we had a strong independent that was somewhere in the middle. There are too many far rights and lefts out there.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
I'd rather have people with a family in office than someone who cannot relate to most of the population because they have no personal life.
Alot of Preseidents and politicians have big families, I think if they are married than the other spouse can step it up. If Palin were a man would anyone feel the same way?
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I do know that Palin is for drilling in Alaska for fuel. I know she did do alot for their economy. My husband follows politics ...way better than me...my son does too...
I just feel like I don't know why we have such bad choices as we do...wasn't there anyone else better out there than either of them.
I personally don't like any of the choices.
I have 1 son....and he's almost 16...if they bring back the draft...I am moving to Canada.
I feel that the United States...gets involved in everyone else's business and forgets about what's happening here.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Palin tends to make it a point to stress her religion while Obama mentions it when asked. I personally have a problem with electing a 70-something year old McCain to office. I personally have no problem with a woman VP or even a woman President but not a woman who makes it a point to stress her own personal beliefs into a public agenda. It also makes me feel that every decision they will make will be spiritually based and an agenda for the US will be based on religion versus what really needs to be accomplished. There's a huge difference in morals and religion. That's fine if anyone wants to agree with that but I'm not voting for anyone who waits for a vision or uses religion as an excuse to go to war or to make any other important decisions. Believe what you want to believe that's the beauty of living in a free society but don't force beliefs on everyone else and use religion as a tool for manipulation to get your own personal set of objectives accomplished while in office..........
[ 07. September 2008, 19:34: Message edited by: MotleyRulz ]
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
I absolutely think a woman can do the job as president. Look at what a great world leader Margaret Thatcher was. But, I feel this woman...has way too much going on. I think there could have been a better woman picked...and I do think that anything that applies to women applies to men too.
Posted by Valley (Member # 1322) on :
One thing I learned along time ago:
Never talk politics or religion with your friends, because they probably won't be your friends much longer.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
The world would be a better place if religion and politics were not mixed. Ane let's be honest while one's own religion is a personal choice, wonder how many politicans actually follow their religion versus simply publically professing it in an effort to gain votes?
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
Agreed Valley! I'm stopping here. Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
It is hard for me not to talk politics with my friends...since 2 of them have major political jobs....but I actually don't talk about politics hardly ever with anybody...but just recently this whole election has me wondering what is going to be the fate of our country...and it is starting to scare me.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
I've been scared for eight years now........
Posted by xchazx (Member # 7158) on :
quote:Originally posted by Valley: One thing I learned along time ago:
Never talk politics or religion with your friends, because they probably won't be your friends much longer.
or the great pumpkin.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
I base my political views on Oprah because everyone knows her word is it.........
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
I think both tickets are incredibly lame. I refuse to vote for either Obama or McCain because of how pathetic they are. People are too easily distracted by all the silly partisan arguments between the Democrats and Republicans and seem to forget that they are both big government, globalist, rewrite-the-Constitution-whenever-it-suits-us parties. On the political spectrum, they're like two hairs apart. I'll get excited when someone's actually invested in de-federalizing the government, permanently eliminating the federal income tax, cutting the federal budget by about 80%, curbing our rampant inflation and debt, and repairing our crumbling infrastructure instead of trying to buy votes with an endless series of entitlements and social programs. Both Obama and McCain lack any kind of executive experience either in the public or private sector. They're legislators; all they know how to do is spend other people's money and create more government (and Obama barely even has that experience).
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: The world would be a better place if religion and politics were not mixed.
I don't buy that. I don't think you should base policy on your religious beliefs, but our Judeo-Christian values are fundamental moral centers in our society. If you believe in nothing, than anything goes. Why respect personal property or other people's rights? Just out of fear of legal reprobation? Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia tried to replace God with state and look at what happened there: they got the end justifies the means. Basically, both extremes - pigheaded religious zealot and atheistic we-make-our-own-rules type - are scary alternatives. My ideal is an open-minded, rational person with a strong moral center derived from basic Golden-rule religious values and a belief that there is a power higher than themselves.
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: Ane let's be honest while one's own religion is a personal choice, wonder how many politicans actually follow their religion versus simply publically professing it in an effort to gain votes?
I agree. The vast majority of our politicians don't believe half the stuff that comes out of their mouths. They're just liars using issues to manipulate people and win votes. They're just pandering.
Posted by 80'sRocked (Member # 6979) on :
quote:Originally posted by journey: My ideal is an open-minded, rational person with a strong moral center derived from basic Golden-rule religious values and a belief that there is a power higher than themselves.
Maybe I should give it a shot. Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
It's not believing in nothing. It is possible to have a society where one respects others without religion. Religion doesn't make the person ethical or moral as you can look at various leaders over thousands of years and debunk that. I'm not necessarily saying atheistic principles just someone who makes decisons for the better of the people not waiting for a sign or an answer from a being upstairs.......
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
If you don't believe in a power higher than man, and you think there's nothing beyond this life then there's really nothing underpining your morals. If you play it out to its logical conclusion, then it means there's really no right or wrong just arbitrary rules and mores imposed by society. I'm afraid of any leader who thinks that there's no one above them that they need to answer to, and that includes self-righteous religious types that believe they have some direct pipeline to God and get to speak on his behalf. Unfortunately as a species, we tend to be highly contradictory and self-rationalizing in the practice of our own values and ethical codes. That's why we can write "all men are created equal under God" while still practicing slavery and denying women equal rights.
[ 09. September 2008, 03:50: Message edited by: journey ]
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
That's hogwash. Contrary to your opinion, there are people out there who don't believe in a higher power who are extremely moral and ethical I.E., there are still some good in some folks.......
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
I never said that in order to be moral, you have to be a person of faith. I was saying that the morals we all just accept as logical and "right", for the most part, originated from religion in the first place. In our society, traditionally, that's been a Judeo-Christian foundation, but in others it's Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. I'm not advocating a particular world religious view or even that people must believe in God in order to be righteous. I'm talking about social foundations. If you purge such a traditionally important one completely out of government, then what do we replace it with? The almighty state? Science? Because there are major problems with those configurations too.
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
Journey-I understand what your saying...I am not religious in any way...so I do not ever tell anyone how they should believe. I think that people who have total faith in a "higher power" do find that to be comforting...and I have always envied people who have complete and total faith in that.
But, I have always lived my life by the "do unto others rule"...and I feel that if everyone ...wether they claim to be religious or not...if they practiced that daily, and were just nicer to each other...then the world we be a much better place. I think that's pretty much what both you and Motley are saying too.
I do think that there are a ton of religious people, who are complete hypocrites...so I would rather not say I believe in anything than to say I believe in something-but don't practice it by the way that I live. So-I actually agree with Motley on something-I think.....
I feel that the world itself is what people should focus on...I feel like if people made more of an effort to protect it...to save endangered animals, to stop the pollution...then that's what "God" would want. I think it is great that now people are looking in to going "green" as a way to live their lives. So, I do think people are slowly coming around to looking at the world, and not just themselves.
But...I really fear for the future of our planet and for the next generations of people...people are becoming so crazy and mean and violent...and the kids already are growing up without being able to play outside...and I think what's going to happen with their kids...the one thing about Hillary Clinton, that even my son was for and liked was that she was really going to crack down on the video game rating system and put a hault to some of the stuff with that.
I just see so much happening on TV today that should never have been allowed to be even put on TV...and nobody stops it.
Like...with the daughter of Sarah Palin being pregnant....and Jamie Lynn Spears ...where is the "morality" issue in that whole thing? I can't say that I was perfect and that I didn't make mistakes...but even when I was in high school, and other girls in my school were pregnant at a young age-nobody ever thought of that as a blessing...nobody thought that was a great thing to be happening. And the more time that goes by...the more educated people should be about birth control...and diseases...and how to prevent that kind of stuff...so there's no excuse but total laziness for those things to happen. So...wether that should even be a topic or not in an election....it just adds to what is going on with people's lives today.
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
I agree with you that we are facing a profound moral decay in our society. And I hope that no one misunderstood what I was trying to say. I am not for government legislating morality or for theocracy. Quite the contrary, I am a huge proponent of less government intrusion into people's lives. I think they grossly overstep their bounds and have created a paternalistic state where they lord over us like parents to little kids. My point was merely that our moral fabric - the basic 'do unto others' and 'live the honorable life' codes of conduct that most us take for granted as being absolutely "right" - was derived from religious-based teachings in the first place. So I don't see faith as being the problem in this equation. If more people had it - instead of just professing it meaninglessly, or reading it selectively - then maybe we'd all be better off. Look at it this way: people say we went to war in Iraq because of Bush's ignorant religious crusade, but actually if he followed the tenets of his faith explicitly, there would have been no justification for a pre-emptive war.
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Bush and ignorance hmmmmmmmm I think your on to something lol..........
Posted by ISIS (Member # 1780) on :
How can anybody believe in the Bible and the 10 Commandments...and then go to war... Isn't one of the top 10....Thou shall not kill.
How can you send someone off to war to kill someone they don't even know...and tell them they must break one of the 10 commandments...and then say it is justified. There is no justifying killing. Who determines who's lives are allowed to be taken, and what makes women and childrens lives more sacred than a man's? A life is a life, and every person only gets 1...so no one's life should ever be taken by anybody-ever.
If everyone out there...no matter what their religious beliefs were...belived in THOU SHALL NOT KILL...we wouldn't be in this whole mess.
If people quit killing each other...then we wouldn't have any problems.
How can any religion say they believe in God, and yet go to war?
Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
The Ten Commandments are always associated with religion so good luck with that. I believe in war if it's absolutely necessary (this one now isn't IMO). If they are gonna try and get us, I'd rather the armed forces get them first........
Posted by pettyfan (Member # 2260) on :
quote:Originally posted by MotleyRulz: The Ten Commandments are always associated with religion so good luck with that. I believe in war if it's absolutely necessary (this one now isn't IMO). If they are gonna try and get us, I'd rather the armed forces get them first........
I believe in war if necessary, too. I don't believe in war just to be fighting and killing each other, but if there's a threat to me and my family, yeah, I want it dealt with.
Posted by NowhereGirl (Member # 465) on :
i'm glad someone brought all of this up.
palin in office? = A BAD JOKE
i'm sorry but i do not mix well with manic preachers or bible huggers.
i personally don't need for someone to tell me that i should believe in jesus christ...or else i will burn in hell..i will believe in what i want and that's something that is private.
Posted by Sam 'The Made Man' Hain (Member # 3150) on :
Not going to vote for your homestate boy? LOL
I wouldn't either
Posted by NowhereGirl (Member # 465) on :
heck no sam. i'm not a mccain supporter and i definitely would not even consider palin as a hopeful for national politics. *shakes head*
Posted by Sam 'The Made Man' Hain (Member # 3150) on :
good girl. Posted by MotleyRulz (Member # 3598) on :
Is Palin for the "Bridge To Nowhere" today? I think it changes daily. I would have no problem with a woman VP or even as President but the key is an experienced, comparable one. There's no way in hell I'd vote for McCain. He's like an older, more conservative Bush if that's possible who turns a blind eye to the economy as well as other things. The only thing I respect about McCain is that he's actually been in combat and was a POW..........
Posted by Stitch Groover (Member # 2895) on :
quote:Originally posted by ISIS:
I feel that the United States...gets involved in everyone else's business and forgets about what's happening here.
That's pretty much how the rest of the world sees America too.
I'm very interested in the U.S election, I've always been fascinated by American culture and studied American history and culture in high school. This election is going to have a huge impact on what direction the world will take in the next few years. I'm hoping that Obama will get up and win, coz I know he'll be able to work well with our Labour government. Our previous conservative govt was very much in Bush's pocket and it's been a real setback for our nation.
Posted by journey (Member # 7316) on :
I've honestly never been less interested in an election in my life.
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