This is topic I Just don't Understand the Dislike for KK Part II on this Board??? in forum « Karate Kid at iRewind Talk.


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Posted by Kevin S. (Member # 1555) on :
 


I remember when Karate Kid Part II came out in 1986, it seemed a bit more popular then the first one, and it even made more money at the box office. I always assumed that Daniel being a bit cooler in the second film was made it more appealing. I mean he wasn't the whimp that constantly got beat up like he was in the first film. KK Part II was a solid sequel in my opinion. It wasn't the greatness that was the original, but what could be?

Then in 1989 comes the dismal KK Part III, an embarassment of a film in my humble opinion. None of the characters really act like themselves and the movie is very UNINTENTIONALLY FUNNY.

Fast forward to the present...

I visit these message boards, and one thing I repeatedly notice is a dislike or ambivalence towards KK Part II. I mean it's everywhere. I was the first one that started a thread about the underappreciated villain in Part II,---Chozen. I mean that guy was really menacing, and more then improvement over Johnny. But hardly anyone here likes Part II.

Instead, the sequel of choice for most folks around here on this board is KK III. I don't get it. Honestly, I JUST DON'T GET IT. Why KK Part III over Part II? Why do most of you like Part III over Part II?

These are the only reasons I can think of for people liking the horrid Part III over Part II:

1. Part II is set in Okinawa, which is too "foreign" for American audiences. But in my opinion, it was the BEST WAY to go. If they set Part II in California with Daniel once again going up against the Cobra Kai that would have been so freaking stupid. Been there and did that in Part I. I thought it was interesting to learn about Mr. Miyagi's past and visit his ancestral home. Chozen was a great change from the Cobra Kai.

2. Now don't any women take this the wrong way----but this board is dominated by chicks. So I am assuming that there is no "cute guy" in Part II other then Daniel for girls to rally around. Sure Chozen is there, but he's not the blonde bad boy that Mike Barnes, Johnny Lawerence or Bobby are.

3. For whatever reason, people have an obsession with the Cobra Kai. Maybey it's the idea of a bunch of cute blonde karate bad boys running around, I dunno. There's a thread on this board that asked who people would rather learn karate from, Mr. Miyagi or the Cobra Kai. I was shocked to see the Cobra Kai easily winning the poll and most people saying they would rather be a Kai student then Mr. Miyagi's student. Hey if you join the Cobra Kai and you screw up, Kreese will make you do 50 push ups on your knuckles. Anyway, since the Cobra Kai only have a cameo in Part II, people don't like the film.


Am I close with my suspicions?
 

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Posted by Brown (Member # 89) on :
 
Hey, here is my little opinion on this..

Personally KKII is my least favourite of the trilogy.. [I don't really consider 'The Next Karate Kid' as an actual sequal..]

Now, While I do like KKII, I just prefer I & III. Hmmm.. my reasons for this are kinda weird. I mean.. I love the character development in KKII. In The Karate Kid, I guess I kinda look at Miyagi as some kind of 'Higher Source'. He gives Daniel all of his Karate skills.. he helps him out constantly. He really is a fearless individual. In KKII we see that Miyagi is in fact human.. he has a very deep background and it sometimes seems that more emphasis is placed on him, rather than Daniel.

I don't think there is that much of a karate relationship between Miyagi & Daniel. Daniel is basically the same fighter that he was when he beat Johnny.. Yet he still goes on to beat Chozen in what is essentially a No Holds Barred fight to the death.

I didn't like the 'thing' with Kumiko. It just seemed kinda 'convenient'.

All the other stuff like Miyagi's father's death, the rivalry between Sato & Miyagi.. and oh my God, 'the drum technique'.. Keen to capitalise on the originality of the Crane Kick concept, I thought the idea of a baby drum being the secret of a generation of Karate was a little corny..

all that said, my real reason why KKII is my least favourite, will be this..

I saw KK when I was very young. It was on TV when I was 8 and it was shown in its entirety. It was about two years later that I saw KKIII. I watched that at the cinema and never saw KKII until it came on TV. Now, the version they showed was really cut. A lot of the fighting scenes were missing and I never saw the full vesrion until 3-4 years later. Thats probably why I prefer I & III..

Lol, thanks for reading..

Ian
 

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Posted by Johnny Cade23 (Member # 1626) on :
 
Ok, let me start off by saying, I'm a fan of Karate Kid 1 & 3. Why? Karate Kid 2 was very slow to me. The fights were very cheesy. ex: At the end where Daniel keeps slappin the guy and he wins the fight. I like Karate Kid 1 & 3 better because A) Better Plot. B) Better characters. No, I'm not saying "Oh Johnny and Bobby are so cute". because in my opinion.. THERE NOT. And even if they were, that wouldnt make me like that movie better. Theres plenty of movies with good looking guys, that I won't see, because the movie doesnt appeal to me. Now, I liked Karate Kid 2, It's just not at the top of my list...
 

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Posted by BillyZabka (Member # 1570) on :
 
Kevin,

Gonna have to agree with you. I, too, have been baffled by the reception given this fine film. It seems that KK fans fall into one of two camps - the "pro-KK3" camp, and the "pro-KK2" camp. I've yet to run into anyone who likes the two follow-up films equally. I really like KK2, and, in my world, KKs 3&4 never happened.

KK2 was beautifully shot, had a great soundtrack, a good couple of villains, and was a great follow-up to the original. KK3, in contrast, felt tacked-on, tired, and, as you said, unintentionally funny.

Although the original will always be my favorite, I feel that KK2 is a great sequel, and is, in fact, a very solid film in its own right. Two more great performances from Morita and Macchio. I'm always up for watching KK2. They shoulda stopped there...


-Zabka
 

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Posted by karatefan8500 (Member # 1495) on :
 
kk2 was a very emotional film that I believe some people have overlooked. It's a great film to cry at the end of.
 

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Posted by McFly (Member # 354) on :
 
I've always been so torn on this. Part of me likes part 2 better (don't hit me!). Kind of like why Superman 2 is better than 1: we know the characters already so we can just shoot into the story.

But really for kk2, the villian is more menacing, even Miyagi has a vilian, the romance is a little stronger, a lot more jokes (they gave Morita a lot of good lines), the ice breaking sequence, Sato helping out during the storm, and the final battle is so much more longer and it's life on the line instead of points. Then "Glory of Love" for the credits, just an awesome movie.

KK3, eh. No romance, childish villians (Avildsen's kid was REALLY annoying), SO much time spent on Miyagi's business and watering bonseis and making pots, really slowed things down. Plus Daniel is so whiney, often times rambling incoherently about his troubles. But enough drama and a great ending made me like it enough.

Even though he beats the bad guy AGAIN, the music and the hug always get me .
 

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Posted by lotrgirl (Member # 1358) on :
 
I have to agree that KK2 is overlooked here. Yes there are no good looking guys in it like KK1 but I still think it is a fantastic sequel. The characters are a lot more complex.
KK1 was very much an all american high school movie. Karate was the subject but it really is all about getting the girl and beating the bullies. KK2 is not westernised at all. The grudges held in the film go back decades. It is a whole different culture which I think we in the western world find hard to relate to.
I think that some of the acting is pretty poor and in parts the storyline seems a bit ridiculous but all in all it is a great movie. You can watch Daniel progress and you learn a lot more about Miyagis history.
 

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Posted by Angel Eyes (Member # 1657) on :
 
Hello, I am fairly new here and wanted to respond. I used to post more regularly about two years ago and than quit.

I personally loved all of the movies because they each represented something a little different in all of them. I could go on for hours on what I think each movie means, but I'll talk about part 2 right now. I think I can honestly say that this has been my favorite of the three for many reasons. Maybe one of the biggest reasons is that I saw this movie first when it premeired on network television in Octber of 1988 when I was eleven years old.

I come from a very different culture, India and I was very snobby toward anything American, be it movies and people. This movie kind of shook and shattered my stereotypical and snobbish thinking. The impression I had of American teenagers being self-absorbed came at odds in all three movies everytime I saw Daniel onscreen, but even moreso in KKII. Since I was very much living in my own culture mentally when I was young I did feel like I was on the outside looking in a lot of the times. It was cool to see this sweet, innocent, American teenager go to another country and experience a another culture very different from his own.

In India they also talk a lot about the honor garbage, LOL! And usually that's all that it is...talk. Here you have in this movie all this talk of values but no one follows it. Mr. Miyagi does of course, but it was so cool to see this unassuming teeanger who didn't have to spout a lot of words and just lived it and really showed these people what honor and respect, kindness and good was all about. The way he sisn't just sit there thinking a whole a lot and took action when it needed to be taken like the older gentleman who dropped his carrots and the little girl in the storm. I also come from a culture that was/is very strict about arranged marriages. I knew back than that I would not be allowed to see or meet my husband till the wedding night. Those thoughts did scare me, but I suppressed them and trooped along. Needless to say, this concern did weigh heavily on my mind at age 11. So here I am watching the movie and he asks this girl if she is arranged.

I did not think that Daniel's and Kumiko's romance was at all convenient. I thought it was natural. When you are a young teenager regardless of wherever you are from, you just automatically become drawn romantically to the opposite sex (or same sex depending on your preferrence) who are more exotic. That's one of the reasons why people travel around the world, so that can find romance with someone exotic from another country. Along the same lines, if a foreignor of a different country visits someones home the way Daniel visited Okinawa and met Kumiko, it is perfectly natural for Kumiko to be attracted to Daniel as Daniel was attracted to her. They were both around the same age, and yes BOTH of them were nice-looking and both different from people who they each have grown up around and very friendly and apporachable to one another, voila. I thought it was perfectly natural. I also loved the romance between these two because of my own position in life. I am an Indian girl and from the time I was young I was told that I would only marry Indian. Well over the years with puberty hitting of course, and being around American boys I naturally developed crushes on them. I tired to fight it because it was taboo, but I still had crushes. This movie was an encouragement and I thought that Daniel and Kumiko had quite a sweet romantic relationship.

I also want to say that I always tought that Daniel/Ralph was/is good-looking and charming and for me that was a bonus in this movie. I never liked the Cobras myself, sexy or not, they just didn't have that "it" factor for me. I loved Daniel's expressions, his baby face and how approachable his character was. So, that set the ideal for me in a guy.

I gotta tell you, though. Since this movie shook up my thinking quite a bit, I was angry at it LOL! I mean, I didn't want to be challenged and presented with seeing the world and toehrs through different perspectives! The movie had such an impact on me I couldn't sleep, LOL! I kept seeing Daniel's cute face when I closed my eyes and I thought, "no no no! You are going to marry an Indian. You cannot fall for a white boy even if he is a character. That's how it all starts and you cannot do that." Ahhh, awakenings. Things have changes quite a lot since back than, but that is the reason why this movie holds a special place in my heart. Sorry for boring you guys with this long-winded post, but I just had to share. Have a nice day all.

*Angel Eyes*
 

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Posted by Claude Willis (Member # 2489) on :
 
I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AGREE WITH MCFLY! I'LL GO ONE STEP FURTHER AND SAY THAT KK2 IS AKIN TO THE "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK" IN THAT , IN MY OPINION, IT IS THE BEST FILM OF THE SERIES, BASED SOLEY ON OVERALL QUALITY, AND STORYTELLING. IT IS ALSO MY FAVE. BUT, THAT'S JUST ME. BUT, I, LIKE BROWN,ALSO AM BIASED BY THE ORDER IN WHICH I SAW THE FILMS IN MY LIFE. I WAS APPROXIMATELY 5 OR 6 WHEN I SAW MY FIRST KK FILM WHICH HAPPENED TO BE KK2. I WATCHED IT OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN, THIS WAS STILL ON BETAMAX FOR THOSE WHO REMEMBER A WORLD WITHOUT VHS, OR DVD FOR THAT MATTER. ANYHOO I LOVED IT, AND FINALLY SAW THE ORIGINAL KARATE KID, AND LIKED THAT ALSO, (FOR THE LONGEST TIME I THOUGHT MIYAGI WAS SAYING "DAMN YOU, SON, INSTEAD OF DANIEL SAN LOL) BUT I GUESS I WAS JUST REALLY ATTACHED TO THE 2ND ONE. I DIDN'T SEE THE 3RD UNTIL IT CAME OUT ON VIDEO IN '89, OR '90, AND I WAS SO HAPPY TO KNOW THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE. ANYHOO, TO THIS DAY WATCHING THROUGH THE EYES OF AN ADULT, I STILL FEEL KK2 COMES OUT SLIGHTLY ON TOP OF THE ORIGINAL IN TERMS OF OVERALL QUALITY, BUT JUST BY A SMIDGE. I'D STILL WATCH ANY OF THEM ON ANY GIVEN DAY. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.
 

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Posted by Ali (Member # 2408) on :
 
Ok.I also saw KK2 first but that is not the only reason it is my favorite.Yes,it showed a human side of Miyagi.Guess what-he IS human.I thought it just emphasized his character.And he could never really be understood until we knoew where he came from and what his life and culture had been before.There was less emphasis placed on training because Daniel was better able to take what was shown him and train himself.Also,there was an element of moral training as well as physical.It showed the principles behind the karate which is even more important to me than learning to beat the blond bullie.
The actors were great,the location beautiful and the romance was more real.I loved the tea scene.As for there being no cute guys,in my opinion,there has never been a guy any more gorgeous than Daniel was,especially on part two,when he was a little more mature.I loved the ice breaking scene and the dancing scene and the villains were ten times better.Need I say more?
 

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Posted by TresFoxy (Member # 542) on :
 
I too am from the "pro KKII" camp. I could not stand KKIII! The way I saw these movies was over my uncles house as a kid and he had taped both of them off of other peoples tapes and in a sort bootlegging way made his own copies. But in this process he taped both KKI and KKII together. We know how in KKII there is the flash back to KKI well he left that part out and started KKII from where Miyagi has Kreese punch out the car windows. For me I always thought that KKI and KII were the same film until I got my own copy of KKI and found that most of my favorite parts were not there. Then I made my parent run out and get KKII asap! KKII is soo much better than KKIII! The script is more creative, the setting is more interesting, and the plot is more alluring. Who cares about the subplot of the bonsai trees in KKIII. The love story of KKII is much better. Plus I love the storm scene. I have always loved storms ever since I saw those scenes. I also felt that KKII acted as a learning experience. A chance for someone to learn about a different culture as well as learn karate. The tea ceremony and the rice ceremony were two of my favorite parts. And I mean come on who doesn't want to learn a Bon Dance. Plus the "Glory of Love" by Peter Cetera is one of the best love songs of all time. It will be playing at my wedding!
 

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Posted by Silverado (Member # 1388) on :
 
I think KK2 has some boring moments and I still don´t get and like the end. However they make a great job with the sequel, with a superb final that seals the end of the best trilogy ever made followed by the "Godfather".
 

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Posted by SunnyRay (Member # 4310) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Angel Eyes:
[QB]

I come from a very different culture, India and I was very snobby toward anything American, be it movies and people. This movie kind of shook and shattered my stereotypical and snobbish thinking. The impression I had of American teenagers being self-absorbed came at odds in all three movies everytime I saw Daniel onscreen, but even moreso in KKII. Since I was very much living in my own culture mentally when I was young I did feel like I was on the outside looking in a lot of the times. It was cool to see this sweet, innocent, American teenager go to another country and experience a another culture very different from his own.

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I did not think that Daniel's and Kumiko's romance was at all convenient. I thought it was natural. When you are a young teenager regardless of wherever you are from, you just automatically become drawn romantically to the opposite sex (or same sex depending on your preferrence) who are more exotic. That's one of the reasons why people travel around the world, so that can find romance with someone exotic from another country. Along the same lines, if a foreignor of a different country visits someones home the way Daniel visited Okinawa and met Kumiko, it is perfectly natural for Kumiko to be attracted to Daniel as Daniel was attracted to her. They were both around the same age, and yes BOTH of them were nice-looking and both different from people who they each have grown up around and very friendly and apporachable to one another, voila. I thought it was perfectly natural. I also loved the romance between these two because of my own position in life. I am an Indian girl and from the time I was young I was told that I would only marry Indian. Well over the years with puberty hitting of course, and being around American boys I naturally developed crushes on them. I tired to fight it because it was taboo, but I still had crushes. This movie was an encouragement and I thought that Daniel and Kumiko had quite a sweet romantic relationship.

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I kept seeing Daniel's cute face when I closed my eyes and I thought, "no no no! You are going to marry an Indian.

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