Read the following quotes from the Miyagster and notice that something just does'nt seem to add up. Quote #1 (from kk1):"Win,lose.No matta" Quote #2 (from the crap kk4)"If must fight,win". See what I mean?
Posted by SHEGOTGAME (Member # 476) on :
I'm kinda stumped on this one too, but in the first KK Daniel was fighting for points and it was a competition, so winning or losing didn't matter because you weren't going to get hurt, or at least not too hurt. In KK4 Julie's fight w/ that guy was more of a serious matter. I think when it comes down to a real-life situation where someone can get seriously hurt, than winning does matter.
Posted by Ali_with_an_i (Member # 27) on :
I thinkk SHEGOTGAME is right. In the first silm Mr. Myagi was reluctant to train Daniel to fight. He choose to put him in the tournament for saftey and fairness. Daniel had come so far and proved that his strength and spirit were for real. In KK2 and KK4 and even KK3 Daniel and whats-her-name (hilary swank) were fighting for more than popularity or girls. Their lives were threatened. Remember at the tournament in the KK1 Myagi said he never fought for points only his life. That's the way I see it.
Posted by celticbabe (Member # 664) on :
The whole "Win, lose, no matter" quote, to me, was hypocritical of Mr. Miyagi to say anyway. Of course it mattered! Mr. Miyagi wasn't teaching him Daniel how to *lose* so of course he at least preferred him to win!
Another thing that was odd in KK1 was when Daniel would only go to the dance as "the invisible man" so no one (cobra kai) could see him. So what does he do when he gets to the dance?? Douses Johnny with water and runs for his life! Entertaining, but makes no sense realistically- it's like Daniel was begging them to knock his ass into the middle of next week, with that stunt he pulled. "He couldn't leave well enough alone."
Posted by KarateKidCan (Member # 289) on :
Daniel obviously thought he could get away with that stunt. Besides, he was kind of a feisty and gutsy guy, so you would expect it of him. He never backed down even when he didn't know karate.
Posted by karate babe (Member # 879) on :
daniel had guts real courage. i think his actions at the danced just highlighted that. he must have known they would find out but he still did it..aww what a guy *_*
Posted by celticbabe (Member # 664) on :
Karatekidcan and Karatebabe,
My friend said the same thing "Well, it took balls because he knew he was gonna get his ass kicked"...Me, well I pretty much thought of him as an idiot for doing that the night of the dance. Surely he could have been vindicated in a more planned way...so as not to get caught..but yeah I guess that did take some guts- did Daniel honestly think he was gonna make it home that night? lol!
Posted by koego (Member # 901) on :
Totally agree with you,Celtic Babe.Daniel was quite the fool when pulling that stunt.It was nothing to do with guts.If he had confronted Johnny in some way,he would have had guts but in this scene,he just caught Johnny off-gaurd,knowing that he'd probably get away with it. Hardly the actions of someone with balls. I dont think this scene shows any courage in Danny at all. I think it makes him out to be an idiot who brings his own problems on himself! Just my opinion:) By the way,Celtic Babe,does your name suggest that ur Irish? Just curious cuz I'm Irish!
Posted by celticbabe (Member # 664) on :
Koego, Yes, Daniel was definitely foolhardy for doing that to Johnny in the bathroom. What was he thinking?? Trying to run away screaming "Get outta my way" through the other Cobra Kais no less while wearing a shower curtain isn't exactly inconspicuous or subtle. I don't even feel bad for Daniel when they kick his ass in the "skeleton fight sequence"- he brought that on himself.
As for me, yes I'm a third generation Irish girl living in the U.S. :)
Posted by Midnight (Member # 366) on :
It may have been foolhardy but GEEZ!! A person let alone a kid could get awfully tired fo being picked on and bullied. He went to the dance as a shower for God's sake because he was constantly living in fear. If I were him I would have done the same because a person can get so fed up being picked on. And dousing someone with water does not call for getting beaten to a pulp by five psychos and that you can't even breathe. I was bullied too in school, and while no I never took those kinds of chances like Daniel did, being good and well-behaved didn't get me anywhere either. I did get so fed up at times it wasn't a pretty site. Bullies will NEVER leave you alone wheather you chose to 'leave well enough alone' or not.
Midnight
Posted by Knock Out Boy (Member # 307) on :
i think the "win lose no matter" quote is just for the tournament..since its not a real fight he is not defending for his life..he may get a few bumps and bruises..but i think miyagi just wanted daniel to earn respect from the cobra kai members in kk2, daniel faught chosen in a real life battle so thats when miyagi basicly said (kick his a**)
Posted by celticbabe (Member # 664) on :
Daniel didn't want to go to the dance because he was afraid of the Cobra Kai students. Mr. Miyagi rigged up a silly shower costume so no one could see who he was. So Daniel went to the dance. Everything is fine. The Cobra Kai don't see him, they leave him alone, he's having a good time with Ali. Then he goes to the washroom to clean off the egg from his hair- and realizes Johnny is in the bathroom stall...so he takes a hose, puts it over the wall of the stall and douses Johnny with water...a guy who has already kicked his ass once before- sorry, but that was just fueling the fire. It just gave the Cobra Kai another excuse to kick the crap out of him. As far as I'm concerned Daniel got what was coming to him that night. Poor Danny boy.
Posted by Knock Out Boy (Member # 307) on :
yeah, thats one beating he brought on himself but ateast spider man came to rescue ;)
Posted by YoungHeartsBeatFast (Member # 574) on :
Folks, the reason Daniel poured water on Johny was because Ali had just said that she'd love to be there when Johny got his. Daniel agrees, they step out out the shower. He gets egg on him and while he's cleaning up in the bathroom, Ali's words are still fresh in his mind.
If she doesn't say that, I don't think Dan does it.
Posted by karate babe (Member # 879) on :
i dont think daniel was afraid to go to the dance i think he just didnt want the agro but after his discussion he had more confidence to pull that little stunt. *_*
Posted by BigL (Member # 67) on :
YHBF is right. In the shower Ali told Daniel "Yea, what goes around comes around."
And after Daniel hosed Johnny and was running out of the dance he told Ali "Its coming around."
That was a great scene. Just a young kid doing a dumb thing to impress a girl he likes, like none of us never did that at that age.
Posted by thischoolsucks (Member # 1178) on :
I think Daniel did it A: Because Ali wanted to see Johnny get his and B: Because Daniel didnt want Johnny to have the last laugh from that night on the beach when Johnny kicked the hell outta him.
Posted by Kevin S. (Member # 1555) on :
quote:Originally posted by koego: Read the following quotes from the Miyagster and notice that something just does'nt seem to add up. Quote #1 (from kk1):"Win,lose.No matta" Quote #2 (from the crap kk4)"If must fight,win". See what I mean?
Miyagi's quote of "Win, lose no matter" from the first film is referencing Miyagi's belief that even if Daniel loses, he will gain the respect of the Cobra Kais and everyone else. Mr. Miyagi believes that if Daniel puts on a good fight, that even if he loses he will have earned respect. That's why Miyagi said that. I'm surprised no one in this thread picked up on that. Also keep in mind it was a tournament.
Remember these quotes that back up this belief:
Miyagi: "Then why train?"
Daniel: "So I don't have to fight"
Basically Miyagi seems to believe in a peace through strength philosphy. No one will mess with you if you are a trained karate expert, and then fighting is avoided.
Miyagi: "No need fight anymore, you prove point"
In The Next Karate Kid, Miyagi simply said that if you must fight---then win. And in Julie's case, it was more life and death.
I see NO CONTRADICTION in Mr. Miyagi.
Posted by karatefan8500 (Member # 1495) on :
One of the problems of movies and even sometimes books, is that writers often make the script and story line fit their own idea of how they would like the book or movie to be like. Daniel's actions on the night of the dance are pretty much the writer's manipulation to get Miyagi to protect him and reveal his Martial Arts, and basically to have the movie progress the way that it did. The fact that it was a really dumb, unwise, and somehow unrealistic action is just a necessary flaw of the movie.
